What the Heck Is Going on With These U.F.O. Stories?
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2023-06-20に共有
The story, reported by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, centered on David Grusch, a decorated former combat veteran who has worked in multiple government intelligence agencies and served on the Pentagon’s Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force. In the story, Grusch said he had decided to come forward as a whistle-blower, testifying under oath to Congress that there are longstanding covert programs within the U.S. government that possess crash materials of “nonhuman origin.” His claims are backed by multiple on-the-record sources from the intelligence community.
The main reactions to this story have been to either embrace it as definitive truth or dismiss it out of hand. I wanted to approach it differently. What is actually being claimed here? Which claims have evidence, and which don’t? How does this story fit into the broader context of U.F.O. revelations over the past few years? There is a lot to be curious about here. There is also a lot to be skeptical about.
Leslie Kean is an independent investigative journalist who has contributed reporting to many of the major U.F.O. stories in recent years, including this most recent one, and she is the author of the 2010 book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record (www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201625/ufos-by-le… I asked her on the show so I could get some of my questions answered, and hopefully yours as well.
Editor's Note: An earlier version of this episode and transcript misstated how David Grusch gave information to Congress. He provided information to the general counsels for the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. He did not testify directly before members of Congress.
Mentioned:
"Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin" (thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-…) by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal
“Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program (www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-pr… Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean
"‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects" (www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightin…) by Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean
"No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public" (www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/pentagon-uf…) by Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean
Book Recommendations:
The UFO Experience (www.google.com/books/edition/The_UFO_Experience/y0…) by J. Allen Hynek
The UFO Evidence (www.google.com/books/edition/The_UFO_Evidence/GZVT…) by Richard H. Hall
American Cosmic (global.oup.com/academic/product/american-cosmic-97…) by D.W. Pasulka
Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp (nytimes.com/audioapp)
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast), and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs (www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.….
This episode was produced by Rogé Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Jeff Geld and Isaac Jones. The show’s production team also includes Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Garrett Graff and Kristina Samulewski.
コメント (21)
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Why isnt this topic being given the serious coverage it deserves? If true, this would be the biggest story in the history of the human species. This needs to be seriosuly investigated and not brushed off like its some joke
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Well I'm not confused. Grusch's testimony is not a revelation it's confirmation. If you're not aware of this you're not paying attention.
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Thanks for covering this when most of the media is not.
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This should be on EVERY NEWS station ALL around the World !!?
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IN A NORMAL COUNTRY THIS WOULD BE ON EVERY FRONT PAGE ESP. ON YOURS, SHAME ON YOU NYTIMES!!!
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I am so thankful that Ms. Keane is making the effort to bring this subject into public view. She is perhaps the ideal person to do the most and do the best with the new information about UAP'S and their reality. Bravo! -Steve Magnante
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About time, coverage of this issue is seriously lacking. Get moving!
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Kudos to Leslie ! She did a terrific job with the hard questions and answering them objectively
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I was with USAF for 25 years, had a clearance, things are deeply compartmentalized and security and secrecy is, NO JOKE, it is drilled into you. I am positive that compartmentalization works and that the govt is very good at it.
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Thank you for covering this in an intellectually honest way Ezra. Please keep pushing on this subject to get to the truth, there is great public interest.
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I'm 100% intrigued and 100% skeptical confusion sux 😂
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I was forced into being a believer. My wife was an experiencer and I didn’t know for years and then she opened up and I felt like the unluckiest man in the world to the point where we went to the shrink because I thought she was schizophrenic. The doctor said no, but has symptoms of it. Even weirder was after that visit with the doctor for some reason I started seeing ufos with her, always with her. It was summer and that summer I saw ufos 4 different times always with her while we were walking the dog. That made me think a lot about this issue and I went down the rabbit hole and as a person that values rational thinking I can tell you that this topic is very confusing, I’ve tried to rationalize it and it doesn’t work, none of it makes sense but it’s real. I have no doubt that it’s 100% real. Things get weirder and weirder the more you look into and one has to remain skeptical but with an open mind. Arthur C Clark said any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic true that
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Bravo pour avoir traité ce sujet avec sérieux et avec une invitée géniale 👏
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The Debrief and NewsNation reportage, along with ancillary expansions and clarifications, easily meet the threshold for serious follow-up investigation. Unfortunately ignorance, cowardice, ridicule, and fear seem to trump hard-edged journalistic truth-seeking in much of the mainstream media.
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Ezra, maybe people within the intelligence community DISAGREE internally about whether or not this should come out? Why would you assume they are thinking as one? What other topic is there that's comparable to this? It's amazing the mental block people have when it comes to this topic. Everyone seems to have already decided on our place atop the universe and spend their time backwards rationalising everything toward that conclusion.
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Please keep coverage on this topic coming. This is THE most important story today.
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I’m a history teacher. And I think if we stop and look at the type of info that is coming out, and the government actions that are happening, we’d realize how much progress has been made. Gotta keep the snowball rolling!
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Thanks for covering this, Ezra! It will reveal itself as important soon! Believe me!
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I think the story of David Grusch needs to get more attention. If he's telling the truth, that needs to be disclosed to the public. If he's lying, there should be an investigation why a high level intelligence officer makes such bald claims... Whatever the truth is, its deserves more attention from the public!
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Outstanding interview. I commend both Ezra and Leslie for this informative and excellent discussion overall.
