Satellites That Scoop Air And Use It As Propellant

"Every idea is science fiction at some point." the dreamer really likes that quote.

this young mans joy in his work just explodes off the screen

The content of the channel this month is the greatest it has ever been.

Fraser, I just appreciate what you do so much. Thank you for interviewing the most interesting people in the world so often. You're amazing man.

Absolutely fascinating. Wonderfully informing interview, with a very polite, very intelligent individual. The future of space science has never looked so good 👍

Fraser asks the perfect question about the atmosphere changing due to solar activity. I wish this part of the interview had gone longer. I would like to ask how fast (giving past examples) can atmosphere change, and could it be so much that the satellite could not get higher fast enough.

Not a terrible idea. Additionally, it is hypothetically possible to select an elliptical orbit with periapsis (low point of the orbit) to intentionally intersect/"graze" the atmosphere, whereby the craft collects/cools/stores enough atmospheric gas to not only overcome atmospheric drag, but to also provide surplus propellant on each orbital period. Assuming solar panels are used to collect enough electricity to accelerate the collected gases, the craft has the potential to have practically unlimited endurance and extreme high delta v and delta p capability. Such a craft could periodically adjust orbit to achieve low velocity rendezvous and "docking" with (grabbing) space junk in LEO (low Earth orbit), so as to propulsively de-orbit the junk (but keep the atmosphere collecting craft in orbit for further rendezvous and deorbiting operations on other space junk). Over a long enough timescale, it would be feasible to clean up LEO of most of the unwanted space debris from litterbug nations. That said, other methods of deorbiting unwanted space junk are also feasible. The biggest hurdle is not technological, but rather, one of current human thinking and behavior. The biggest space litterbugs are national governments on the Earth, and those people need to become more responsible. One cannot solve a side of the highway trash problem by periodically picking up trash from the side of the road, if everyone else in society routinely throws garbage out of their car windows onto the side of the highway, thus causing new trash to accumulate faster than it gets picked up. Unwanted space trash in LEO does naturally (at a slow rate) clean itself up over time without intervention (due to atmospheric drag and natural orbital decay), but this still leads to a net accumulation of space trash, when too many space litterbug nations exist.

The real challenge with this is getting the lifetime up, ionized nitrogen and oxygen are very reactive with basically everything it even eats teflon ( a favored electrical insulation for spacecraft wiring) not to mention cathode materials like barium. having an unlimited propellant supply doesn't help much if your thruster eats itself after few hundred hours and destroys half the wiring. Everyone hates on xenon but besides cost it really is the best ion propellant from performance and lifetime perspective.

Lately there is an overload on innovations, which is amazing, it seems they opened a can with innovations, not only in space, also in my job area. Exciting times. I'm happy to see these developments in my lifetime. Thanks, Mr. Cain for showing us these, how do you shift them for your videos? It's a huge job. Much appreciated.

I love the doctor's enthusiasm and frasers excellent interviewing.

02:00. In a way, this idea reminds me another type of theorical engine at a very different scale imagined decades ago: the Bussard Engine. This one harvests (or breathe, to reuse your metaphor) with giants magnetic fiels the hydrogene in the interstellar medium to feed its fusion reactor. That's s science fiction for now, because it would require a giant magnetic field in front of the ship, extended on thousand kilometers if I remeber well, because the hydrogene is in very very small quantity in the void of space.

Absolutely fascinating! Dr. Tisaev does a wonderful job making this topic understandable.

Summary * (0:00) The Problem: Satellites traditionally require onboard fuel, limiting their lifespan. * (0:52) The Solution: Air-breathing ion engines collect residual air particles from the very low Earth orbit (VLEO) as propellant, potentially allowing for unlimited operation. * (2:04) How it Works: * The engine draws in air particles, ionizes them into plasma, and accelerates them to create thrust using solar power. * This requires careful balancing of thrust, drag, power generation, and spacecraft design to maintain orbit. * (19:35) Advantages: * Virtually unlimited lifespan due to no onboard propellant requirements. * Reduced space debris risk due to rapid re-entry upon engine failure. * Potentially lower light pollution due to lower altitude and faster passage into Earth's shadow. * Enables science missions, improved Earth observation (e.g., higher-resolution imaging), and faster communication latency. * (15:32) Challenges: * Operating on a "knife edge" between thrust and drag. * Sensitivity to solar weather and atmospheric density variations. * Optimizing engine design for efficient ionization and acceleration of air particles. * Developing materials resistant to the corrosive effects of atomic oxygen present in VLEO. * (28:13) Current Status: * Research and development are ongoing, primarily focused on ground-based testing in simulated VLEO conditions. * Prototype launch within the next few years is anticipated. * (32:05) Beyond Earth: * Air-breathing ion engines could potentially work in the atmospheres of Mars and Titan. * (36:26) Interstellar applications are intriguing but face significant challenges due to the extremely low density of interstellar space. i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript

So, Bussard ramjet, scaled waaaaaaaaay down for a more dense medium? Edit 2: I should have guessed Fraser would get to that, my edit one is a bit more detailed on the "not feasible" explanation. Edit: For anyone curious what I am talking about, it is a joke. The bussard ramjet was a proposal to sort of do this with interstellar hydrogen for interstellar travel, but with fusion of the hydrogen for thermal propulsion rather than electric propulsion. By the late 80s we knew it could not generate enough thrust for interstellar travel due to the interstellar medium being too low a density and by the mid 90s we knew it could not overpower the solar wind in system. But it is cool enough a concept it is moderately well known for a hypothetical interstellar drive technology.

It's a pity that this concept can only be used to barely maintain the orbit. If it could be used to somehow "plunge" the sattelite into the atmosphere to collect and store some gas for the next month of operations .,..

What an interesting interview. It was really detailed and fascinating. Thank you.

I was interested in this idea back when propellant depots were a hot topic a decade or so ago. The idea was that these things could collect oxygen (the heaviest part of propellant) in orbit without having to launch it from earth.

That was a great interview.

Fraser's idea to use a similar propulsion system for interstellar travel sounds like the Bussard Ramjet concept from the 1960's. This "tech" powers spacecraft in Larry Niven's sci-fi universe.

Great idea. Interested, if you can use that for those aplications: 1) Fleet of smaller "refuelers", wich would scoop the materiel, and than return to its "mothership" to fuel it. That might help with the cost of interplanetary travel (most of the cost would be the "refuel starts" from the surface). and/or 2) "Orbital space-tug" - big powered unmanned "satelite", wich would save fuel for bigger starships by accelerating them (or for incoming space-mined materiell, or even starships - deccelerating them) on specific vector and speed. eventually 3) "Orbital sweeper" for clearing the orbital debrie from around the Earths orbit.