Finally Realized my Problem with the Sequels

I'll just sticky it here: 1) Apparently the progression was Wildcat > Hellcat, not Wildcat > Corsair. I guess this came from me watching movies/shows made Post-war that used scrap parts and I always saw Zeroes shooting down Wildcats and Corsairs shooting down Zeroes. Also, missed opportunity to go Wildcat > Hellcat > Tomcat. Bad, bad Zoot. 1b) I was also aware that aviation was young in 1940, hence why I leapt ahead twice to the F-35 Supersonic Stealth VTOL, whose test-type came out in 2000. Even ten years before it was rolled out, nobody thought you could combine TWO of those words, let alone all three, on a single plane. Ain't innovation something?! 2) A lot of people say "Budget" is why neither side rolled out new designs. A TIE/sf, the two-seater Poe and Finn stole, costs more than a Tie Interceptor. Like a lot more. Also, the T-85 X-wing, which is also from Resistance and actually got a nice cosmetic upgrade, costs barely more than a T-70. Like a pittance. 2b) (NEW!) Also, this is more pointing out how DISNEY offered nothing new. I don't care about in-universe technological stagnation, because that isn't present in either of the other trilogies, as this video points out. The Sequel Trilogy does not get a pass because of a Thermian Argument like that. 3) On the subject of Resistance, I specifically pointed out the Baron Interceptor because it is very clearly an evolved Tie Interceptor that DISNEY themselves created ("You see? You can do it." - Ben Kenobi). A lot of people suggested they use things like E-Wings or Tie Avengers from Legends, but that's just replacing one form of nostalgia for another. I want INNOVATION. Also the E-wing is basically "We Have X-Wing at Home" 3b) I also like the Baron Interceptor because it follows the Mecha logic of power creep, where mid-series the robot gets replaced with a new model that sports more potent weaponry to counter the growing threats, something an ACTUAL XX-Wing would probably abide by. The other trilogies displayed such evolutions, why not here? Even if we started the trilogy with X-wings and Tie Fighters, we should have some cool new stuff to admire by the end. 3c) As for LEGENDS content, I would love to see the TIE Avenger used in more Thrawn content, like how they used the Defender and E-Wing. Thrawn being canon is already fanservice, just pile on an extra scoop with Legends designs in that same space. 3d) My big focus on why the Starfighters specifically should evolve is because the most iconic (and marketable) elements of Star Wars are the Lightsabers and the Starfighters (And, to a lesser extent, their wielders) thanks to how much open role-play they allow. The fact that the sequel trilogy only gets stand-out starfighters in side content is disappointing. 4) Most of you got my point that this observation applies to the series as a whole, where nothing truly new was given the room to shine because so much was smothered by nostalgia-pandering, causing the Sequel Trilogy to feel it has a lack of identity. This was a symptom that put the vibe easily into words. Also, Finn's the best new character, screw all of you.

This was literally the first thing George Lucas pointed out that he didnt like "Theres nothing new" as he put it

It weird to not have tried to innovate the vehicles, even if only for the sake of having cool toys that would be forever tied to those movies

I remember thinking about this before. They just slapped an additional large gun onto the tie fighter and called it a day. Whats next, a regular old star destroyer but with an additional big gun? Oh wait...

People like to point out that the reason the First Order didn’t have anything new was because they were a small remnant of the Empire that lacks resources and manpower. There’s just one small issue with that argument. STARKILLER BASE.

It's even worse with Bombers. We went from fire and forget, target locking, Ion Torpedos with the Prequal Y-Wings/Original Trilogy ships, to Gravity dropped, slow ass, bombs from The Last Jedi's slow Bombers that have to fly above their target in the most dangerous and exposed way possible.

i think when George Lucas said that he thought the sequels didn't innovate enough, maybe this is what they were on about. the first 6 movies where based off of older movies and media which allowed them to shape into what they became. the sequels on the other hand were just based on star wars.

The funny thing is that they actually succeeded in creating a sequel ship design that learned from its predecessors: the Resurgence-class star destroyer. It learned from the lack of starfighter support by including an enormous hangar deck cutting through the middle of the ship, and it removed the exposed command bridge on the top that we see get destroyed multiple times in the original trilogy. I think the only reason they gave star destroyers the quality redesign it deserved was because most people only recognize the star destroyers by the dorito shape.

The worst part is that they do have the ability to create cool looking ships. Starfortress from TLJ for example, but they are given the most absurd functions. I understand they they were trying to portrait the painful sacrifice the space crews had to endure, but making those ships the slowest bomber in the entire history of galaxy makes the scene so laughable and hurts the overall message.

Just be glad we didn't get a black Millenium Falcon Han: Tf did they do to my ship?!

What’s worse is the art books had several fresh new starfighter designs and they just decided not to use any of them at all

The problem is as soon as you try to come up with ways to fix it you immediately run into problems with how poorly conceptualised everything in the sequels is. Like, what should the First Order look like? Well that depends, are we dealing with the fringe political movement First Order or the Empire 2.0 First Order or the "wipe out every planet with a fleet of Death Star Star Destroyers" First Order? Disney has no idea what these factions really are besides "legally distinct Empire" or "legally distinct Rebels" so what chance did they ever have to create a roster of interesting, thematic and well thought out vehicles?

To play devil's advocate, while I agree it's dumb the First Order goes back to using fighters based on the original TIE Fighter, with its obvious deign flaws, instead of something based on the later and far superior TIEs, I can't really fault the Resistance for using upgraded X-Wings (they aren't the same X-Wings we saw in the original trilogy but an upgraded model with some visual differences like differently shaped engines). Unlike the TIE Fighter, the X-Wing doesn't really have any obvious design flaws and it was the main starfigher of the Rebellion, so it does make sense for the New Republic to use an improve version of a proven design their pilots would already have been familiar with instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. A comparison between 1940s fighter planes and 1970s fighter planes doesn't really work in this context because there was a massive leap in technological development between them with the development of the jet engine. Meanwhile starfighters in Star Wars are a proven technology that hasn't really seen any revolutionary innovations in centuries, so any improvements in design would be iterative: a more powerful engine, a better hyperdrive, improved weapons, etc. A difference between 1970s fighter and modern fighters would be a more valid comparison, and modern fighter jets still have the same basic look as 70s jet fighters. They're not identical, but it's clear that one is an evolution of the other. Now if you excuse me, I'll have to go scrub myself clean. Defending some aspect of the sequel trilogy makes me feel dirty.

"It was always about the money Spiderman." - Kingpin, CEO of Disney

Prequel trilogy: sleek ships that are also clear precursors to technology in the OT. Original trilogy: slightly battered and worn ships, but clearly still effective depsite their age. Sequel trilogy: Uhhh, how many buckets of black paint do we have?

A scene where a veteran Empire pilot points out the First Order standard TIE is crap and insists on piloting an older but better designed TIE interceptor or defender would have been great.

Someone finally put it into words. I take particular issue with the Y-Wings in the ST, because they're not there in VII or VIII, but then IX was written for fanservice, and fans had been bitching about the lack of Y-Wings in VIII, so they put Y-Wings back in, even though it's a consistent pattern in the OT movies that whenever they use Y-Wings, the Y-Wings suck and the smaller ships have to do their job for them. And Legends did this too. They tried introducing the E-Wing early on, and they never really caught on. The New Republic/Galactic Alliance quickly reverts to using upgraded X-Wing variants. And then they take a step backwards, and say that they gradually phased out the A-Wing because it was unreliable and the B-Wing because nobody except the Mon Calamari could fly the things, so it really does mostly become X-Wings only. The Imperial Remnant are a bit better about it, introducing a bajillion TIE variants, but the evolution of technology mostly stops at "What's the most familiar and iconic thing from the movies? Yeah that." They do have somewhat more of an excuse though, since a lot of the EU was written pre-Prequels.

lol I never made the V-19 / B-Wing connection until you pointed it out.

thats 1 of the reasons when i scoff when i hear people say "just like the prequels people will love the Disney movies in the years to come"

It is even weirder when you realize they were capable of innovating and selling new toys. Look at bb-8. He is an astromech droid like R2, but he is obviously a newer model. I think bb-8 has done extremely well on the merch side. I had several bb-8 toys myself. Obviously they can design new tech.