I love DOTA2. But this may be the end. Here's why...

I found you through your dota 2 streams, and I'll be staying through whatever you decide to play instead because you're just a delight to watch no matter what you're playing. I loved watching you play dota because unlike watching pros playing, I was watching someone who was also figuring out some stuff here and there, someone who tried new heroes and new things that they weren't good at and it was okay! But I know a good part of the community doesn't think the same, a lot of people seem to be more focused on telling you that you're bad instead of enjoying the pure chaos of someone trying to learn a new role or a new hero at high mmr. But again! You're a lovely person and your streams are great, if you're no longer having fun with the game, then don't force yourself! Keep the good memories you made, and we'll move on with you into the next thing! Thank you for everything Grubby, keep up the good work!

I felt that a lot of solo queueing in DOTA was just managing everyone's egos to make sure that no one cooked off unnecessarily and started feeding couriers or throwing. You're spot on your assessment with regard to why people are like that, they have played for so long and it has become their lives. They no longer even enjoy the game, but they feel they have no where else to go, so they stay on the game and lash out whenever there is any discomfort. I found that playing in low priority was much more fun because people were just playing for fun rather than for points and ego

He's like a gentleman from a more civilized age.

You worded this so well. I'm sorry about your bad experiences, it's heartbreaking. Glad you also had a fantastic time as well though!

Mad respect for you and for that decision, dude. I had very similar experience with dota2 and quit for exact same reason (although it was 10 years ago). And don't worry about moving on, I really appreciate your personality and openness, and will watch your content for as long as you will stay true to your values.

Dota was my main game for many years, I played it's earliest versions and was instantly hooked. Played customs, the clan tda era and onto the garena scene, then i joined league beta, heroes of newerth then moved on to dota 2 when it started. I saw dotas transformation from a casual custom map to a competitive game with massive tournaments. The level of competition was insane, but at the casual level the increase of competitiveness added a different kind of fun for a few years. But then the community seemed to turn on itself. Just like you said, many games were no longer an enjoyable experience. People didnt want to win, they needed to win. Constant name calling, blaming everyone instead of focusing on what they could do better. This obviously wasnt all players, but it was enough players that I was no longer having fun. I did the pre mute for a while but it just wasnt the same. I decided to take a break and uninstall thinking i would get the desire to play again. It was about 5 years until I decided to play dota again. Obviously I was no longer at the same skill level(i was good, but nowhere near pro level) . I played one game and was harassed by my team starting from my item choice in the load screen. They reported me told me, to never come back, and called me names for the entire 35 minute game. I thought to myself, i didnt have any fun or enjoyment. Why would i spend my free time doing this. That was probably 2018 i think? Ive never played dota since. I used to be one of the biggest fans, but that part of the community has completely ruined the game for me.

Imagine mobas but people respect each other and are helpful and in a good mood

As a long time league player, I'll never forget when I tried DOTA 2 for the first time and got flamed for dying vs AI by my teammates... who were also playing vs AI. I'm used to league toxicity but this was a really strange experience to me.

I understand you truly. This happened on my journey a lot of times, I usually have to take some time to reset and this could consist in weeks or even months without playing. And whenever I return, I fall in love with Dota 2 again. But the thrill only last a limited amount of time. And I've dedicated my adulthood to Dota 2 (playing it since its release, currently 7.2k MMR and done a couple of casts including TI for the Brazilian community). Since I tried to make this my passion/work, sometimes I feel stuck to the game. But you know, that's our sin for loving good games a lot. Take your time, grubby!! we'll be waiting. This is called "saudade" in portuguese and you might miss dota at some point

I recently tried to teach my friend DotA 2 who was coming from League of Legends. I came out of a 6 year hibernation to play some games with him and absolutely forgot how much patience you need when queuing up without a full team (the last two years I played was only with my college team we were competing in JDL with). It took so much effort to defuse people flaming each other, and sometimes never worked. I ended up finishing our game session emotionally exhausted, and this is exactly why I stopped playing. Many times I was playing diplomacy simulator more than DotA

As a person who quit LoL recently (and other MOBAs long ago), I feel absolutely the same. And also as a person who played all those 3 MOBAs, I totally agree that voice chat experience is really cool, but could get toxic really quickly! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

i played the game hardcore for many many years, and then took a much needed almost 5 year-long break in 2018 when i realized i had stopped enjoying it. when i made the decision to come back, i felt like i was better able to enjoy it after experiencing other gaming communities in the time i was away i'm an immortal bracket player so i know first hand how rough this community can be, and while i'm sorry to see you go (been following since before you started dota, and will of course continue after you stop playing), i totally empathize and support the decision. it does feel like this game has permanently rewired some people's brains. they're unable to interact normally with others on a basic level when they're playing the game, and it was really disappointing (though not surprising) to see how little this had changed while i was away. i always, always recommend people take breaks from dota 2 in particular because of how much it (and other mobas) can snare you in this cycle of frustration and desire to improve. if it's not fun, switching to something else is always a good option. happy to see what you play next

I had a reverse situation, played Dota for around 10 years, competed and went to tournaments with different teams and it was a blast. However, after a while I had a break and had no team, so I started playing solo for some time. The difference in the experience you get in terms of fun and improvements is so huge that at some point it felt like a waste of time playing solo due to reasons you mentioned. So, I transitioned to Starcraft 2 and fighting games, as those don't have teammates and it felt amazing competing and improving in those. That said, if you ever feel like returning to dota, I highly recommend playing with a full team for max enjoyment instead of random pubs.

Yeah, if ur not a pro and u dont play to have fun then why play at all. Familiarity is a good point. Like someone who goes to college and picks a major they think they would be good at based on familiarity instead of figuring out what they actually enjoy.

On point. Thank you for sharing Grubby

I remember when I found your channel through dota 2. Watching your climb from Herald to Immortal inspired me to try to do the same. Now that I have gotten to Legend I just want to say thank you for inspiring me to become a better player and also getting me back into rts games like wc3 and sc2. Keep up the good work and I wish you all the best.

Being stuck in a losing match for a really long time is poison for player behavior. And seeing your teammate make a mistake gives you flashbacks to the times you were stuck in your base for 40 minutes because you fell behind early on. Games dragging on for that miniscule chance for a comeback is hype for e-sports, but matches that resolve faster are much better for the vast majority of games.

Hey that’s great healthy decision to make. I think the discovery level of you playing DoTA was great, but it’s kind of hard to ignore that chat and players in match are exhausting to deal with. Always happy to see what’s next 🤙

Could not agree more. I've basically stopped playing Dota for the last 3 years. Most summer breaks, I give it another attempt to try and recapture the joy of playing the game in the early days. Every time I'm quickly reminded of the same qualities in other people that you're speaking of - and I can't stand it. I'm very competitive and want to win, but I also really enjoy experimenting with off-meta heroes and trying to discover unconventional strategies. I'm always amazed with how closed-minded the players around me are. Often if we're losing, I'm blamed for "griefing" because I didn't pick one of the same 5 support heroes that I'd see every game. Even crazier, when I try playing unranked instead, the people there have the same attitude, like the match they're playing is one of the most important moments of their life and ALL of the 9 other players are actively working to sabotage it. It sucks the life out of a game that should be amazing. Thank you for speaking about this issue - I hope future competitive team games will take these lessons and foster better communities.

Thank you for sharing your very well-articulated reasoning for stepping away. I discovered you on the Twitch Dota 2 game page and always enjoyed watching your streams. Your positive attitude and growth mindset is inspiring and contagious. I hope to tune in to another Dota stream of yours sometime again, but wish you the very best no matter what the future brings!