League's Most HATED Role (And Dota's Most Beloved)

I mean in Dota in 99% games position 4 tries to pick pudge. If he gets the pick, he gets 4 reports.

Fun Fact: Guinsoo really hated the Jungler Role because the Jungler Role was and still is causing a huge impact in League, smite was nearly remove

I've got 1000+ hours in Dota (Pos 4&5) and started playing league recently. These videos have really helped me understand the nuance between the two games and have been a great introduction to League's playstyle. This has effectively replaced that one friend who introduces you to the game initially and tells you all about it, so I'm really thankful. Something this video alludes to, which is also my biggest gripe with league, is that LoL has 4 core roles & 1 support. The lane setup of 1/1/1/2 means League feels less like a team game and more like 4 separate battles that are happening on the same map. I think this is why League is considered the more toxic game of the two as well as individual performance is more important, and losing the game because of someone else's actions feels worse than losing as a team. A lack of TP scrolls or other movement skills means that Jungle is left with the burden of 'Teamwork', as they are the only role that can move around the map and help teammates while not sacrificing farm. I am currently just playing support and want to learn Jungling, but the pressure to perform is making the idea imposing. That being said i'm loving the vids and i'm excited to see what you make next.

LoL junglers are a wildcard in a game where lanes a very structured, and most players queue with a gameplan already in mind Dota pos 4s are also wildcards, but the entire game is based around disruption, individual gamechanging spells, and shiftings plans on the go

Pos 4 player are the type of people who just "lives for the moments" when they hit a 5 man echo,rp,or black hole they get a dopamine rush and just wants the next chase. The satisfaction of a perfect AA blast, the just in time venge swaps. The perfect shallow graves and 5 man golems into fatal bonds. They don't care if they're winning or losing. As long as they fulfilled what they set up to they are happy.

In a nutshell, here's a short description of all dota's positions: Pos 1: the kid Pos 2: the narcissist Pos 3: the bully Pos 4: the father figure Pos 5: the babysitter

I love the concept of Dota's ward wars. Supports have a simpler version of that concept too when you contest pink wards and go ward deep in jungle when enemies can't punish you. It's one of my favourite things to do as a support main.

Immortal pos 4 again. Some things I would add to this video: 1. In your pos 4 viability checklist (23:15), the most important thing for me is your hero's synergy with your pos 2 and (to a lesser extent) pos 5. This is because these are usually* your midgame playmakers. Pos 1 needs to farm and pos 3 needs to make space (+build teamfight items), so 2/4/5 are usually the ones grouping up to smoke for picks. Also, most pos 3 heroes are able to 1v2 in lane (or creepdrag), and even if they lose you can always shut down the enemy carry with a gank; But if your mid loses badly, there isn't really anybody in the game who can shut down the enemy mid even if your offlane wins. So it's more important to have good synergy with mid, even if it hurts your lane partner. This brings me to my next point: 2. In your section on timings (5:38), rotating for the 6 minute (and 8 minute) power rune is probably THE SINGLE most important timing to hit as a pos 4. Getting a "good rune" (damage, arcane, haste) can basically guarantee a successful gank if a mid player gets it. If both mids buy bottle, it becomes even more pivotal since they can save the rune to turn a key fight. These are so important that sometimes pos 5s will rotate as well, and the resulting 3v3 fights can be game deciding. This is another reason 2/4/5 synergy is so important. I know this video was about how "everyone loves pos 4" but when I see a pos 4 getting flamed this is usually why. 3. One of the biggest factor in pos 4 viability is the ability to easily make stacks, and help your team clear them early. From the offlane, you have the easiest access to the triangle, which are the best camps to stack in the game since they are easy to defend and only place you can stack a hard camp + ancient camp at the same time. If you have a hero who loves stacks like Luna, Bristle, Sven or TA, then it is often worth it to leave lane every single minute to stack triangle, and this is why these heroes are often picked alongside stacking pos 4s like Shadow Demon, Batrider, Rubick, or Hoodwink. Also, as long as you remember to go early for wisdom rune, you basically get a "free stack" at 7 minutes on the side ancient camp since you should be going there anyways. 4. The last big factor in pos 4 viability is teamfight initiation and/or backline jump. In most fights, it is usually too risky for your pos 2/3 to go initiate first without vision, and they can't just completely abandon the 1/5 to chase the enemy backliners. In mid-game teamfights, it is basically your job to throw your body into the enemy team to get vision, cause chaos, and force key targets out of position. Out of the 15 most played pos 4s in high MMR pubs right now (https://dota2protracker.com/), I'd say 11/15 are chosen mainly for their ability to help initiate fights and disrupt backliners (Tiny, NP, Bounty, Techies, Nyx, Pudge, Bane, Tusk, Earthshaker, Bat, and SB) with the rest being stacking heroes (Hood, Rubick, SD, Willow).

Oh we did have junglers in dota a wayy back ago... Iron Talon Legion Commander 10 min afk jungle until she gets blink and only then comes out of it to duel on cooldown then continues farming, or even worse midas rush lifestealer/wk which will legit stay in the jungle until they get 10k networth or the enemy team are pushing their barracks by 25 min. These memories are nightmare fuel... I do miss them, however 😵‍💫

As someone who plays DOTA consistently (immortal) and league semi-frequently (plat 2), I appreciate how concise and easy to understand you make all of these videos regardless of experience! Definitely one of the better MOBA content creators.

Everyone love pos 4 untill it is pudge staying afk in a trees for the whole line stage.

I like how you starting play smite music from a different game when you mentioned the summoner spell smite. good addition to the video.

Most people dont know how fun it is to play pos 4. You get to setup ganks or respond to ganks. With the addition of the twin gates it's very satisfying to surprise the enemy safe laner that is just a bit out of position. And the fact that if you killed them you know they gonna be pissed and pinging you at least 9 times.

19:49 chad DK ignores warnings and kills both

The term Jungler for dota is kinda outdated. There was a time where there's actual jungling option for pos4 with certain hero, but both Valve and the community figured out it was lacking impact. The common terms for pos 4 are Roamer now. I do agree that both Jungler and Roamer are expected to create impact through rotations, but where it differs is that Junglers in LoL have dedicated jungle, and the heavy role of smiting objectives, therefore creating even bigger expectations to fulfill since they can get their own gold. In Dota, pos 4 don't farm as much as cores (depending on the hero) but can already create noticeable impact simply by rotating or map control. Even when playing from behind, you can't really blame pos 4 since they are not the one farming. If i had to express it, Junglers in LoL is in a race against each other, while Roamers in Dota is in a match of creativity and clever plays

Playing Smite (the moba) music at 12:20 was a nice touch

Hey man, I gotta say - I found your channel randomly yesterday and I really love the content - it is not everyday someone compares these two games in such depth. Keep it up - I would love to see more of this, even though I'm not a huge Dota player myself!

18:24 haha that's spot on. Yesterday I had a game where I tracked and countered the ganks of the enemy jungler the whole game, did all 6 voidgrubs + Shelly, but lost the game because my team refused to help with any dragon and tried to kill baron twice while I was on the other side of the map (and they got wiped and gave the enemy team baron both times). Then they tried to blame me, the only guy with a positive K/D/A

I'd like to mention that pos 4 in the last big tournament of dota PGL Wallachia which was around when this video was released, was picked as a carry role. There were quite a few games where the offlaner and midlaner were lower in net worth than the pos 4 and pos 4 had huge damage and kill pressure. There were marcis, hoodwinks and nature's propherts deleting enemy hard carries. It's most definitely not just a support role. And it's not just pro play, it happens all the time in pubs too, the pos 4 just gets so far ahead on semi-carry heroes like the ones mentioned that they deal carry level of damage. My second role in league is jungle, my first one being ADC, while pos 4 is my least played dota role and pos 3/5 being my most played. So yeah they're the most different roles in both games.

In dota , disruption is to be expected and a kill/death early on doesnt mean much depending on resources/time expended. In league, it often just means you are playing from behind the rest of the game. Dota did have patches like that early on but because the player base hated them with vigor they never stayed for long (or because it was so unsatisfying to watch - i do not know the actual reason why). Dota2 is a game of comebacks where playing your best under all but the most dire 😉 circumstances can actually start to turn the game in your favor. Jungle main btw in lol and ... Literally anything in dota xD