The caliber debate is over

The debate only ends when the internet dies

The debate is over: departments choose 9mm over .40 because some of their officers don't handle the .40 very well and everyone, therefore, must be issued the less capable caliber. By that logic we should all abandon 12 gauge for 20 gauge. An ER doctor who was in one of my classes carried a .45. I asked him why such a big caliber. He said, "Because we don't see many wounds in the ER from calibers that start with '4'. They usually go straight to the morgue. In the ER we get mostly .22's and 9mm's."

Paul Harrell has an excellent comparison of 9 and 40 without 15 minutes of resume fatigue. Barriers, accuracy, speed, numbers, actual comparison, etc. check it out.

Interesting analysis. Used a 1911A1 in 45 Auto for 3 years in S.E. Asia with 230gr G.I. ball ammo with excellent results in actual close quarters combat. Eight years later, I was a peace officer carrying a S&W mod 28 357mag revolver. Was involved in three shootings. I walked away from them. As a patrol officer for 4 days a week, and armorer for the 5th day, I worked on the department weapons. Later, an additional assignment, I ran the officer involved shootings team. There,I investigated, studied, and reported to the chief of police on these shootings. And, of course, I was not approached by command when they decided to switch to autoloader pistols. The PD chose the Beretta 92F 9mm. 😒 Our rate of fire/effective hits rose from 1.3 rounds expended with the .357mag, to 4.8 rounds with the 9mm. I was not surprised. So, looking back to the many single hits from the 1911A1 I used where highly motivated and professional NVA soldiers fell to the 45 Auto. And the ARVN troops I fought with using 9mm pistols firing multiple times in combat, I'm relatively confident in comparing these results with that in the PD's choice of the 9mm. In exchange of rounds in close combat with handguns, the 9mm is inferior to larger, more powerful rounds. This is solely based upon personal experience, and statistical analysis of shootings of police officers against armed criminals within the agency I was employed. So do I now, long retired, have large caliber revolvers personality? Yes, several. And do I own any autoloader pistols? Yes, two. Both 1911A1 in 45 Auto. Any polymer 9mm's in my safe? Nope. Not a single one. I personality will only use what I know what is effective, and discard which is not. Now all you younger shooters, who only punch paper and gelatin, with no combat experience, can begin the howls of declaring me a Fudd. Fine. Call me whatever you like. Won't phase me a bit. 😏

My department issued the Glock 23, .40 caliber, before my ‘97 retirement but I don’t recall anyone having trouble qualifying w/it that didn’t also have the same problem w/the issued thirty-eight revolver. I survived a 1974 gunfight w/my issued Colt Detective Spl 38. revolver and agree with carry what you shoot the best. Caliber wars are nonsense.

If .40 in a duty size pistol is too much recoil to tame..you need to reevaluate your life choices..

“The caliber debate is over.” This must surely refer to some other planet….

Howdy Sheriff, I'm a retired Texas peace officer with 40 years in, a TCLEOSE (now TCOLE) licensee to teach law enforcement classes and law enforcement firearms. I have never worked for a department that issued firearms to the officers. Instead, each one (6 total) had a written policy which said each officer must supply their own duty weapon (handgun). Further, that weapon must be: 1) made by a high quality manufacturer, 2) at least a .38 spl caliber (no maximum specified at the time), 3) DA/SA revolver or an automatic. It was further explained that one should carry the most powerful caliber that one could reliably/consistently hit the target with. The choice was left to the officer because it was the officer's life on the line. I started off with a .357 S&W with a 6" bbl. I was "normal sized" back then (6' /220lbs.). I carried duty weapons, at one time or another, in each of the following calibers: .357, .45 Colt, 9mm, 40 cal., 10mm, and .45ACP. I eventually settled on 10mm for the last 15 or more years of my career. I sometimes carried a .45 1911 for my light work days, and a .40 cal when just "running to the store." I never would work for a department which had a policy which requited me to carry ONLY what the least capable shooter in the department could hit with. I had a Capt. once explain the need for standardization. "If you come up on a scene and the first officer there needs more ammo, you can hand him one of your magazines." Nope, nope, NOPE! It that officer fired all his ammo (three 15 round mags and one in the chamber for a total of 46 rounds) and didn't stop the fight, then I'll be dammed (litterally) if I allow him to waste my ammo, and endanger the public further with their poor shooting. Sorry for the wall of text, but I had a lot to say.

Pretty clear to me that the 357 sig and 45 acp wound channels blow away the 9mm... The 40 SW looks like middle ground..

My brother in law is a retired sheriff deputy whose service time was when .40 S&W years as all the rage. He still swears by it. The irony for everyone who hated .40 was that it was the only round you could still buy online throughout the great 2020 ammo famine. Edit: I'm surprised at the number of responses to this. To clarify, I'm neither a lover nor a hater of .40 S&W. I never fired it and I've never seen anything to show it's so much better or worse than 9mm to make a significant difference. All I can say is what my brother in law says. Another spin: He's always loved reloading so had piles of 5.56, 9mm (for his friends), 12 gauge, and .40 S&W in 2020. To him reloading is a pleasant meditative experience he'd do even if the government gave out ammo for free. So 4 years after 2020 he could probably supply a USMC combat division.

You had a tighter group with the .40 over the 9mm.

Funny because the pictures of the 45 on the ballistic gel look quite a bit bigger compared to the first 9mm.

I've been in the firearms industry for almost 40 years now, and I have noticed that the first thing that 9mm buyers do is hunt for the hottest +P load they can find. You need to do a side by side test pitting the hottest 9mm vs 155 gr 40 cal range ammo. Even then I think the 40 will still have the power advantage.

I'm pretty sure Paul Harrell settled this question some years ago. The .40 S&W is, all other things being equal such as manufacturer and bullet construction, is superior based on meat target performance. Unless you don't like the .40. Then "you be the judge". That's why I rotate between 9, .40, and .357 Sig. I'm confident in all three and base my carry decision on other factors besides caliber alone. Example, the .357 Sig is an "outside" caliber. Because it's LOUD.

As former law enforcement Thank you for ending this debate! Started carying 357 mag but now its a Glock 23 in .40

I have carried the 10mm , 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 9mm professionally in that order. 10mm is a totally different beast when loaded properly…. The load we used was basically a 40 S&W. I love each round. I have found that apples to apples the 40 performs better than 45 or 9. Same bullet equal (ish) barrel lengths. Both the 9 and the 45 were designed at military FMJ bullets. The 46 is often not moving fast enough to expand the hp. The 9 often has a smallish hp that gets clogged.The 40 was designed as a police round. The 40 recoil is sharper than either 45 or 9 and does give some shooters fits and can definitely cause a flinch. This debate will never end😂

"The optimum shoe size is size 10D; if you're wearing any other shoe size, you're doing it wrong." - This is what the caliber debate sounds like to people who understand that every shooter is different, just as every platform and application is different. Carry the caliber you will practice, practice, and practice some more with and use modern self-defense ammunition. If you're comfortable shooting a larger caliber, good for you, because you get to have that extra fraction of a percent of lethality. But I'd rather a shooter sacrifice that fraction if it means them shooting a caliber they'll actually become proficient with.

Almost all pistol calibers suck, they exist to get you to your rifle.

The fbi said that with modern bullet technology, the 9mm is the way to go. Well, that same technology applies to the 40 cal. So , I will stick with the 40

.40 cal was ALWAYS on the shelves even during ammo scares. I never ran low on .40.