Greece vs Rome, with Boris Johnson and Mary Beard
1,388,475
Published 2016-01-18
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On November 19th 2015 Intelligence Squared hosted the ultimate clash of civilisations: Greece vs Rome. It was also the ultimate clash of intellectual titans. Boris Johnson, Mayor of London and ardent classicist, made the case for Greece; while Mary Beard, Professor of Classics at Cambridge and redoubtable media star, championed Rome.
As Boris argued, the Greeks got there first: in literature, history, art and philosophy. The Iliad and the Odyssey are the earliest surviving epic poems, the foundations on which European literature was built. The Greek myths – the tales of Oedipus, Heracles and Persephone, to name but a few – contain the archetypal plot elements of hubris and nemesis on which even Hollywood films depend today.
It was in ancient Athens that the birth of democracy took place under the leadership of the great statesman Pericles. And in that political climate with its love of freedom and competition, and passion for argument, the great cultural flourishing of classical Athens occurred: the tragedies of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides; the philosophical writings of Plato and Aristotle; and the marble and stone wonders of the Parthenon. Nothing before or since has matched that explosion of talent in a slice of Mediterranean coast smaller than Gloucestershire, with a population the size of Bristol’s.
But as Mary Beard reminded us, Greece eventually lost out to Rome. Little Athens, with its loose-knit, short-lived empire, had nothing to rival Rome’s scale. From Hadrian’s Wall to north Africa, from Spain’s Atlantic coast to Babylon, the Romans stamped a permanent legacy on architecture, language, religion and politics.
Although nothing can detract from the brilliance of Greek literature, the great Roman writers have an immediacy unmatched by any other ancient culture. Virgil’s epic poem the Aeneid, while invoking Homer, conveys an ambiguity towards war that appeals to modern sensibilities; Catullus’s taut analysis of his own complex emotions and the scatological insults he hurls at his rivals make him seem like the kind of clever and amusing friend we all wish we had. These poets reach out to us with voices that make the intervening 2,000 years vanish.
While Athens declined into a forgotten backwater, Rome became the eternal city, home to the greatest classical buildings on earth – the Colosseum, the Pantheon and Trajan’s column. It is thanks to a Roman emperor, Constantine, that Christianity became both the presiding European religion and the force that shaped the Renaissance. Europe is still built in Rome’s image, despite the fall of the Roman Empire.
Some say that if Mary Beard had been in charge, the Roman Empire would never have fallen. Others say Boris is soon to be the Pericles of Downing Street. Who gets your vote?
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All Comments (21)
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There’s an alternate universe where Professor Boris Johnson is sat in his Oxford office, wearing tweed, offering a student help with their dissertation on the development of Athenian democracy
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The Romans used to say "we conquered Greece with our army, but the Greeks conquered us with their culture" I think this answers our question
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As a Greek i think it's safe to say western civilization as we know it wouldn't be the same without both Greece and Rome 🇬🇷🇮🇹
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It's a very strange realization that Boris Johnson would have made a really good college lecturer.
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Anyone who compares Boris to Trump should be shown this video.
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It's interesting how people seem to lump Trump and Johnson together on the global stage because of their similar styles and appearances -- but whatever you think of his politics and behavior (which I personally am against by the way) Johnson is many heads and shoulders above Trump when it comes to intellectual curiosity, vigor, and learnedness.., Imagine Trump participating in a debate about the classical world!
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I love to imagine how ancient greeks and romans would feel if they saw evolved "barbarians" debating about their fallen civilisations. History is madness! :-)
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Why the classics should still be a part of everyone’s school education in Europe.
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Well you don’t see much Roman yoghurt on the shelves. Case closed.
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Watching this i can't get over the feeling that Boris Johnson missed his calling. He would have been a fantastic lecturer.
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What an excellent debate from two passionate and very knowledgeable speakers! I just didn't want it to finish. Congratulations to both!
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The Greeks win hands down for humanities but Rome won everything by the sword.
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I came, I saw, I enjoyed it.
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What a wonderful delight! Caught this in Shanghai watching via VPN on Youtube. Amazing to see the other side of Boris.
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I choose the Byzantine Empire, both Roman and Greek ;)
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Roman culture could not have happened if not for Greek development and culture.The Romans themselves were obsessed by anything Greek.
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BOTH ancient Greece and Rome are what gave birth to modern western civilization. As I usually say greeks planted the seed and romans watered the field.
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What an unexpected treat! Watching from Wyoming—Thank You!🙋🏼♀️
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Great debate, good fun. Enjoyed this more than any movie I've seen in years.
